It appears that all of the Icelandic Horses in this exhibition are fighting the bit. Their heads are tossing and tipping at odd angles; their mouths and jaws are opening and twisting.
Has this become so common place in the Icelandic Horse world that it is acceptable as OK, or even "good" riding?!?!
What do these riders think when they see themselves and their horses?
Do they think that other horse people can't see the problems with the riding and the equipment?
For more information about natural horsemanship and Icelandic Horses, see the Icelandic Horses Connection
8 comments:
this breaks my heart... what are they thinking????
Seems like they're fighting the *speed* (or lack of) more than the *bit*. And they're expressing it through tossing their head, etc. They look like some amazingly athletic horses who'd like nothing more than to catch up with and show off to the rest of the group. I don't find this heart-breaking, I find it inspiring that these horses have kept their spirit and desire to strut their stuff.
This particular example of "fighting the bit" looks like the natural side-effect of horses who've not had their spirit "broken" by unnatural practices that keep them from developing to their full potential as athletic creatures.
OK, a little more context for my previous comment... I don't think fighting the bit is EVER a good thing, but it can be a reflection of something that IS good. And as I said, in this particular video, that is indeed how it looks to me given how fit and strong and otherwise pretty happy and spirited these horses appear.
Does this justify horses "fighting the bit"? No, but it helps (for me) to understand that the context for this is not always or implicitly a sign of a miserable horse.
It's just a different perspective, and the opposite of the one I once had. But I've now experienced heartbreak on the OTHER side, having seen my most beloved horse lose all desire/ability to become excited no matter the circumstances. I don't ever want that "fighting the bit" behavior, but right now -- I would cry tears of joy if Draumur recovered enough spark to "express his opinion" or have a "debate" about speed.
Even the Parelli's suggest that our partnership with the horse should be 51/49, and I think that when we walk such a fine line, it's not surprising when the horse decides it's HIS turn to play 51%.
A horse that expresses strong opinions can be a lot of terrible things ranging from in pain to dangerously disobedient, and for a million reasons it can obviously indicate something very bad. I'm just saying that I viewed THIS video (definitely not ALL "fighting the bit" vids) through the lens of someone who has a new appreciation for spirited, athletic, happy horses in exciting situations.
I know most of you reading will never agree, but Judy has created a culture that encourages expression of "unpopular opinions", and that's where I'm at. I'm not at all saying I'm *correct* -- I have no idea who any of these horses/riders are. But I've made a massive shift recently in how I view the issue of spirit in the horse, and what it means--and takes--for a horse to be "happy".
- Kathy
"I know most of you reading will never agree, but Judy has created a culture that encourages expression of "unpopular opinions", and that's where I'm at. I'm not at all saying I'm *correct* -- I have no idea who any of these horses/riders are. But I've made a massive shift recently in how I view the issue of spirit in the horse, and what it means--and takes--for a horse to be "happy".
- Kathy"
Yes, I agree. Judy has done an excellent thing by creating an environment which allows for honest opinions. I think it's very important for people to share their own experiences and indiviual insights, be they popular or not.
I also agree that there is nothing so sad as a shut down, depressed horse. A horse which seems to have given up on people and simply goes along with it all in a *just get it over with* sort of way. No input from the horse can be worse than too much. Hopefully, the interaction between us and them, isn't a fight, but no feed back or, as you put it, "opinion" from the horse leaves me cold. It's certainly not the experience I find exciting or even interesting. In fact, it's down right depressing.
Lucy
>>Seems like they're fighting the *speed* (or lack of) more than the *bit*. And they're expressing it through tossing their head, etc. They look like some amazingly athletic horses who'd like nothing more than to catch up with and show off to the rest of the group.<<
Then why don't you see other breeds in the show ring tossing their heads and fighting the bit? Is is that the Icelandic show horse is not as well trained, or the rider is not as well trained? Whatever the case, the above excuse is simply a cop-out that really doesn 't hold water.
@desertduty: "Then why don't you see other breeds in the show ring tossing their heads and fighting the bit?"
We do see other breeds in the show ring tossing their heads (or at least trying to), in events where speed is encouraged-- jumping and barrel racing are far worse, and nearly always use additional hardware/straps to help prevent the horse's head from coming up.
I don't necessarily think it's that the Icelandic horse and/or rider is less well-trained (although in my case, that is certainly true). I believe (just my opinion here) that it is a combination of the way in which Icelandic horses in these events are asked to "perform"--encouraging a great deal of spirit and athleticism--and attributes which these horses have been bred for.
We've all seen the transformations that occur when you take virtually any out-of-shape paddock horse and get him into awesome condition... where you wonder what happened to your formerly "lazy" content submissive horse... the one replaced by aliens with this snorting head-tossing magnificent show-off athlete.
If you took an Icelandic horse and trained him for a Western Pleasure event, spending months/years asking only for control and never speed, etc. -- this head-tossing, let-me-go-let-me-go-lets-go-fast behavior would most likely stop, eventually. (and probably, sadly). And my sister has a 4th level dressage horse and indeed, her well-schooled TB rarely--if ever--tosses his head during normal training.
But Icelandic horses in the show ring are not entirely unlike race horses, and when you ask a horse that's been encouraged and allowed to really GO to suddenly go "up" instead of "out"--which is what we're doing in slow tolt especially--it's no surprise that in the unusual/extreme scenario of a competition/show this head-tossing nano-tantrum is what we get.
It is a difference of opinion between horse and rider, and while I used to think that the best trainers would completely "train this out of them", I no longer am certain that's entirely true. I now wonder if the very BEST and most caring trainers work their butts off to make sure they do NOT *completely* extinguish this out of them, and instead walk that fine line of partnership. In other words, they train for--and hope--it doesn't happen, much, but consider it an acceptable risk for keeping the horse's high spirit.
But once again, this is not how most of the Icelandic horses I've seen behave in their day-in-day-out 358 days a year riding, and that includes some world-class competition horses.
And for my (non-world-class, except to ME) horses, especially, it's always the opposite problem--I have ridden them so calmly and slow and steady and consistently and--what I believed to be--thoughtfully that they "forget" how to really (forgive the language) "haul ass". Most importantly, they forget how good it feels to REALLY be a horse.
That's my 180. Just as this represents a completely different way of looking at things for me, I reserve the right to totally change my mind again in the future. God help us all if we refuse to ever consider things from a new point of view.
Looking at things from the horse's POV is always tough and counter-intuitive. After all, they sometimes kick one another--HARD--just for fun.
Kathy,
While I think your answers are well thought out and well meaning, to compare a typical show horse to a race horse is like comparing apples to oranges. Have you watched some of the racking videos on you-tube? They don't fight the bit and toss their head like just about EVERY Icelandic down. Most of those horses are not HELD into the frame necessary, and are not fighting the bit and head tossing to the extent the Icelandic is. Could it be the tolt is not that natural to them and they have to be held into position by the rider and then pushed for speed in order to achieve the great tolt/rack? Could they do it regularly without the extreme frame? No, I think you are molding your answer to suit your current need - the need to show your horse and fit in with that type, and justify your horse tossing his head and fighting the bit. Even the pleasure tolts on you-tube, not the competition ones, the horses are held into tolt and tossing their heads. When on a looser rein and more natural frame, they are still great gaiters, just not tolters/rackers. That shows what is natural and what is man-made.
desertduty: "Could it be the tolt is not that natural to them and they have to be held into position by the rider and then pushed for speed in order to achieve the great tolt/rack? Could they do it regularly without the extreme frame? "
That's a slightly different question, and I don't know what's true. But given how much that "frame" is used to get that level of Show Tolt, I agree with you. I've seen only a few horses do that extreme degree of big, slow(er) animated tolt on a loose rein, so I assume it's not something they're able to sustain for long without that frame.
But--this is the "Show Tolt" we're talking about, not their everyday tolt/saddle-rack, and out here, even the top show tolters are trained and exercised at all levels of tolt with all degrees of contact including NO reins as part of their daily exercise.
I have not seen any good trainers here that would advocate working the horse in this extreme frame regularly because it almost immediately inhibits the very thing they're trying to bring out -- big, free, forward movement. We are asked to ride without contact every single day, if for no other reason than to preserve the ability of the horse to *want* to move out freely and happily with loose shoulders.
Back to your question, I don't think most of these horses are capable of doing that big Show Tolt naturally. But even my horses DO tolt/saddle rack in-hand in a halter, though it's far, far from Show Tolt. In California, there are between 3 and 5 shows each year, so even those who take their horses to every competition in a year will still be asking for that for only a few days each year. The rest of the time, we're happily tolt/saddle-racking down the trail mostly on very light following contact or, often, no contact at all. And you're right -- that light-to-no-rein tolt is far from the one you see at the show. But even the crappiest (as measured by show standards) tolt-like gait is still a heavenly thing to ride.
My fairly uneducated answer would be that you're right -- most do NOT do this Show Tolt naturally or without a lot of "support." But of the 50+ Icelandics in our area, at least 90% of them are quite happy to saddle rack with or without contact -- and the young ones who appeared to have NO tolt at liberty were all "trained" to do it within 6-8 weeks of first asking.
I have seen very few that will do a wonderful perfectly even 4-beat gait without using their body well, even the ones that default to tolt/saddle-rack. If they're being lazy or stiff, you get pacey or trotty, but as they warm up and become more energized and start working from behind and loosening their shoulder, the gait seems to even out.
If someone claims that Icelandics do this perfect even 4-beat saddle rack by default, without help, I sure haven't seen much of that. But most of the ones here *who are in good athletic condition and forward moving and with at least decent rider* do a wonderfully comfortable saddle-rack with very little effort and with or without much contact. When the horse is NOT very fit or supple, or not asked to move with energy from behind, then I do see/get much more of the ultra-pacey or almost-trotty "easy gait" by default. But it seems to take very little to ask a little more and get a little more, even (or sometimes because of) riding in a halter.
Whether a horse should EVER be asked to do that Show Tolt -- on those few days where we ask them to go all out -- is a different question, and not an unreasonable one. But it's just further up the spectrum from the question of whether we should be riding them at all. None of this is 100% "natural", but we justify a lot by seeing it as a tradeoff for the horse -- (you do this for ME, I do this for YOU)-- one that the horses we love seem happy to make (most of the time).
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